Afternoon summary
- Flights could cease between the UK and the rest of the EU if Britain crashes out of the bloc without a deal, the government has said. The admission was in one of 24 new no deal technical papers published by the government this afternoon.
- Jacob Rees-Mogg has said that Theresa May needs to recognise that Chequers doesn’t have much support and that she should think carefully about switching tack to propose that the UK strikes a Canada-style free trade agreement with the European Union after Brexit. As Dan Sabbagh and Peter Walker report, the chairman of the hard Brexit-backing European Research Group urged the prime minister to abandon her own customs plans before a crunch cabinet meeting at the launch of a report by the rightwing Institute of Economic Affairs thinktank that proposed a deregulated, free trade future for the UK.Rees-Mogg described May as “a lady of singular wisdom” who was “likely to recognise the reality that Chequers doesn’t have much support” and that “with her wisdom and insight she’ll think carefully about adopting it”.
- John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has sought to defuse a row with Labour pro-Europeans by saying that staying in the EU could be an option in any referendum on Brexit organised by a Labour. (See 5.04pm.) He was speaking a few hours after a Today programme interview in which he said remaining would not be an option because the party had to respect the result of the original referendum. His climbdown appears tactical and cosmetic, rather than substantial - the Labour leadership has strong objections to holding an in/out referendum - but the People’s Vote campaign has welcomed this as a significant win. Labour will end up having to back an in/out referendum because there won’t be a general election, and it won’t be able to have a deal/no deal one because there won’t be a deal, one People’s Vote source predicted.
- Angela Rayner, the shadow education secretary, has announced reforms to the supply teacher system which she claims could save schools in England £500m. Labour explains the plan like this:
[Rayner] outlined plans to introduce a new national substitute teacher register to end the spiralling cost to schools of hiring supply teachers, which cost £556m on recruitment agency fees alone in 2015/16, an average of over £25,000 for every school in England.
The national substitute teacher register would be similar to a system already used in Northern Ireland, which allows schools to book the teachers they need at short notice from a government held register of accredited teachers in the local area. This simple system alleviates the need for schools to pay expensive agency fees to find suitable teachers, allowing those savings to be used on teachers, resources and essentials that many schools are struggling to afford.
- Reforms to Labour leadership elections and the selection process for would-be MPs have been supported by delegates despite splits between constituency parties and unions. As Jessica Elgot explains, the debate illustrated a divide that has opened up between Labour’s union wing and Momentum-led activists.
That’s all from me for today.
Thanks for the comments.
Updated
Gardiner says it's "looney tunes" to think government will call early election
Barry Gardiner, the shadow international trade secretary, was speaking at a Prospect fringe when he said it was “looney tunes” to think Theresa May would call an earlier election. Tom Clark, the editor of Prospect, has written it up here. And here’s an extract.
While Gardiner said he would love an election and would cheerfully vote to Remain in any new referendum, people were in “looney tunes territory” if they thought the government would be rushing to concede these things. He said that in recent weeks, he had been talking to the Commons clerks about the consequences of the government’s Brexit plans being voted down, and he had concluded that there were very few ways in which MPs would be able to bind ministerial hands. A “non-fatal” amendment to May’s plans could potentially end up in the courts, and even a “fatal” amendment would be unlikely to be able to dictate what she did after the defeat.
UK hauliers could be banned from continent under no deal Brexit, government says
The road haulage industry would face severe problems in the event of a no deal Brexit, one of the government papers reveals. It says:
In the unlikely event of no deal, UK hauliers could no longer rely on automatic recognition by the EU of UK-issued community licences. Hauliers may therefore no longer be able to access EU markets with their community licence alone. This would also end the ability of UK hauliers to perform cabotage.
EU countries may choose to recognise that UK-issued operator licences and associated authorisations are based on the same standards as EU community licences and do not require further authorisations. This would ensure continued cross-border trade, but cannot be guaranteed.
If they do not, UK hauliers will be able to use ECMT permits if there is no deal. We have made arrangements for this in regulations under the Haulage Permits and Trailer Registration Act. In addition, some old bilateral agreements between the UK and specific EU countries may come back into force if there is no deal ...
We expect demand for ECMT permits will significantly exceed supply . As such, permits will not be allocated on a ‘first-come-first-served’ basis, but rather according to criteria that have been set out in regulations under the Haulage Permits and Trailer Registration Act 2018.
European Health Certificates will be needed for all livestock being exported to the EU.
Consignment will have to be checked at border inspection posts and need to be signed by an authorised vet.
Livestock hauliers will also face more red tape with certificates of competence, vehicle approval certificate and valid transporter authorisation documents required for transit to the EU.
The no deal papers also state that British mineral waters would not be accepted for sale in the EU in the event of a no deal, and UK producers may need to be prepared to apply for recognition of their water through an EU member state unless a special agreement is reached. But the UK intends to allow mineral waters from the 27 country bloc into Britain as before even in a no deal scenario.
Another notice says processed food makers would need to display a UK and EU address on their products after a no-deal Brexit if they wanted to be sold in each territory. It says:
An EU address alone would no longer be valid for the UK market. Similarly, a UK address alone would no longer be valid for the EU market.
Minsters said they would hold a consultation with consumers and the industry on whether to allow in the first six months after a no deal Brexit food bearing an EU address only to be put on sale in Britain to help ease any immediate supply difficulties.
Barry Gardiner, the international trade secretary, has said that it is “looney tunes” to think that Theresa May might call a general election, the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg reports.
Ahhhh, conferences. Barry Gardiner, shadow trade sec, has apparently told a fringe meeting it's 'looney tunes' to think the PM will call another general election - erm... that's what party keeps saying they are pushing for
— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) September 24, 2018
Turning back to Labour for a moment, the Telegraph’s Jack Maidment says John McDonnell has “clarified” what he said earlier when he ruled out having a remain option in any second referendum on Brexit organised by Labour.
John McDonnell has sort of clarified his second Brexit vote comments.
— Jack Maidment (@jrmaidment) September 24, 2018
He said: "Keir is right. We are keeping all the options on the table."
Asked if that included Remain: "...we are saying respect the past referendum and I just tell you we have to be careful what we wish for."
McDonnell may have clarified what he said earlier, but this is not really a retraction. McDonnell may be conceding that technically an in/out referendum remains an option, but these quotes suggest that he is just as opposed to one as he was at 8.10am.
Updated
These are from Sky’s economics editor, Ed Conway.
Funny thing abt the Brexit no-deal technical papers, another batch of which was published by govt today, is that the overarching expectation is that in the event of no deal there will be, erm, a deal. Here's a bit from the paper on aviation (full thing: https://t.co/63IdAdyj5n) pic.twitter.com/q2t9WbGee3
— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) September 24, 2018
The UK is a big importer and exporter of chemicals, so this is a v big deal. If we leave without a deal, likely that chemicals exporters will no longer be able to sell into Europe without shifting their national registration pic.twitter.com/jPLOLJGwc4
— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) September 24, 2018
If there's a no deal Brexit, there's a chance you will have to rescreen your luggage and go back through security if, say, you're taking a long haul flight via Paris or Amsterdam or Frankfurt. You don't have to do this currently pic.twitter.com/WG3w1jEMk4
— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) September 24, 2018
The department of transport said it “expects” to get a bare bones deal with the EU and does not expect flights to be grounded.
The no deal notices says the government will grant EU flights permission to flight to the UK post Brexit if there is no deal and it would expect member states to reciprocate.
It would “not be in the interest of any EU country or the UK to restrict the choice of destinations that could be served,” it said.
But it adds: “If such permissions are not granted, there could be disruption to some flights.”
Bus and coach services to EU could be suspended under no deal Brexit
Bus and coach services to the EU could be suspended under a no deal Brexit, one of the papers says. It explains:
If there’s no deal, UK bus and coach operators could no longer rely on automatic recognition by the EU of UK-issued community licences. EU countries may choose to recognise that UK-issued operator licences and associated authorisations are based on the same standards as EU community licences and not require further authorisations. This would ensure continued passenger movement, but cannot be guaranteed.
The UK’s participation in the Interbus Agreement by virtue of EU membership would also cease to have effect. However, the UK intends to re-join Interbus as an independent member and to have this in place for 29 March 2019, or as soon as possible thereafter should this prove necessary. This would enable UK operators to run occasional services into the EU. It cannot be guaranteed at this stage that the agreement would be extended to cover regular services, or if it is extended, whether that would come into force before 29 March 2019.
UK motorists would need to carry an international certificate of insurance issued by insurance providers, known as a Green Card as proof of third party motor insurance cover when driving in the EU in the event of a no deal.
The cards are free in principle but drivers have to obtain them from insurers who “may decide to reflect production and handling costs in a small increase to their administration fees”.
Pet owners - those with dogs, cats or ferrets - who want to take holidays in the EU would have to prepare for travel “at least four months ahead in advance of the date they wish to travel”.
Owners would need to prove their animals are effectively vaccinated against rabies, requiring a special test, and then obtain a health certificate.
On arrival in the EU pet owners would then be required to report to a designated entry points with the animals.
The UK is seeking discussions with the EU whereby it can become a “listed third country”, which if successfully concluded would mean only minor changes for pet owners and no need for rabies tests months in advance.
But this has not yet happened, so the government has warned that in theory “pet owners intending to travel to the EU on 30 March 2019 would need to discuss requirements with their vet before the end of November 2018”.
Flights would immediately cease between the UK and the rest of the EU if Britain crashes out of the bloc without a deal, the government has said. As my collegues Dan Sabbagh and Lisa O’Carroll report, in its latest set of “no deal” notices the government has said planes would be grounded because the EU-issued aviation licences would not be valid and airlines would have to “seek individual permissions” to operate with respective states. It says:
If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no agreement in place, UK and EU licensed airlines would lose the automatic right to operate air services between the UK and the EU without seeking advance permission.
Here is their story in full.
There are 24 papers out today.
Here they are:
European Territorial Cooperation funding if there’s no Brexit deal
Aviation safety if there’s no Brexit deal
Aviation security if there’s no Brexit deal
Flights to and from the UK if there’s no Brexit deal
Operating bus or coach services abroad if there’s no Brexit deal
Vehicle insurance if there’s no Brexit deal
Manufacturing and marketing fertilisers if there’s no Brexit deal
Buying and selling timber if there’s no Brexit deal
Commercial road haulage in the EU if there’s no Brexit deal
Exporting animals and animal products if there’s no Brexit deal
Updated
Government publishes latest set of no deal Brexit planning papers
The government has published its latest set of no deal Brexit planning papers.
They are all here, on the gov.uk website, alongside the papers published on the first two release days.
Scottish Labour leader floats idea of windfall tax on Scotland's wealthiest 10%
Richard Leonard, the Scottish Labour leader, used his speech to the conference this afternoon to float the idea of using a wealth tax to raise almost £4bn in Scotland. He told delegates:
In Scotland today the richest one per cent own more personal wealth than the whole of the poorest 50% put together.
So instead of a fervent devotion to inequality from the Tories, and timidity and mediocrity from the Nationalists, it is time for moral courage and audacity from Labour. Which is why I have said that the time has come to consider a wealth tax.
A one per cent windfall tax on Scotland’s wealthiest 10 per cent would raise £3.7bn to invest in public services.
He also said a Labour government in Scotland would pass a Land Reform Act. He said:
Labour has unfinished business on land reform. Labour abolished feudalism in the first term of the Scottish Parliament, but twenty years later we are still living with feudal ownership, with four hundred and thirty-two private landowners still owning a half of all privately owned land in Scotland.
And with ownership comes power. We need land justice because our earth is a common treasury. We need land ownership in Scotland, for the many not the few.
The party said a Land Reform Act could include a land value tax, a cap on the amount of beneficial interest one could receive or a residential requirement for absentee landowners.
Greenwood says Labour would scrap Tories' benefits sanctions regime
Margaret Greenwood, the shadow work and pensions secretary, told the Labour conference in her speech this afternoon that Labour would scrap the Tories’s benefits sanctions regime (the set of rules that lead to claimants losing benefits if they fail to comply with conditions, such as attending interviews or looking for work). She told delegates:
We know that the majority of people want to work. But we know too that the sanctions regime is failing.
That is why the next Labour government will scrap the Tories’ punitive sanctions regime in its entirety.
We will rebuild our social security system from the principles on which it was founded. Supporting people rather than policing them and alleviating poverty rather than exacerbating it.
She also said Labour would halt the roll out of universal credit to allow its “many flaws” be fixed.
McDonnell accused of 'clobbering employers' by business
The business community really didn’t like John McDonnell’s speech, and his employee share ownership plan in particular. I’ve already quoted reaction from the CBI. (See 1.43pm.) This is from Stephen Martin, director general of the Institute of Directors.
We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again – business is not the enemy.
The overwhelming majority of business leaders are as frustrated as anyone about poor wage growth, sluggish productivity, and corporate governance failures. But the answer will not be found in sweeping measures and angry rhetoric.
Despite so much focus on employees as wealth creators, it was deeply disappointing that there was absolutely no recognition of the directors and entrepreneurs whose skills and endeavours generate jobs and prosperity in this country. Our members pay their staff well, provide training and plan for the long-term.
There are plenty of areas - from skills to governance - where business and Labour can work together to ensure that the economy is able to meet the pressures facing firms large and small over the next few years. But clobbering employers at a time of unprecedented uncertainty would be a poor way to start that collaboration.
And this is from Adam Marshall, director general of the British Chambers of Commerce.
This is a missed opportunity to reassure British business that a future Labour government would seek to build greater stability and confidence for business communities that have already endured years of political uncertainty.
Let no one be fooled, Labour’s proposals are both a tax grab and an unprecedented overreach into the way many of our businesses are run and will raise serious concerns. At a time of peak Brexit uncertainty, when Labour should be setting out how it will support business confidence and investment, it is announcing policies that would deliver the exact opposite.
The call for wholesale nationalisation could put investment in a deep freeze at precisely the time we want to be encouraging investment in the economy.
Why would investors here in the UK, and even more worryingly in boardrooms across the world, choose to put a penny into Britain in the knowledge that their shareholdings will be diluted, and their boards will be subject to significant government interference? Why would they list a public company on the UK market in such an environment?
Starmer insists second in/out Brexit referendum still an option for Labour
Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, has insisted that Labour has not ruled out holding an in/out referendum on the final Brexit deal. This morning John McDonnell said, if the party did back a referendum, staying in the EU would not be an option. But Starmer insisted this option had not been closed off. As the Daily Mirror reports, he said:
We weren’t ruling out options and nobody was ruling out remain.
There were 300 people in the room and that was absolutely clear.”
The meeting last night was very clear that the question of a public vote should be open.
Starmer is right to say that an in/out referendum would be an option under the terms of the motion the party will debate tomorrow (see 11.58am) and he clearly wants it to be an option that the party takes seriously. His difficulty is that, even if the party retains an in/out referendum as a notional possibility, McDonnell’s words suggest that, in reality, the leadership would never agree to one.
My colleague Aditya Chakrabortty has written a good column on John McDonnell’s plan to force firms to give shares to their workers.
Here is an extract.
The sums involved are massive: Labour calculates that 10.7 million workers covered by the scheme will get about £4bn a year in share dividends by the end of Jeremy Corbyn’s first term in government, while the public sector will receive an annual £2bn.
This also represents a big shift in Labour’s thinking. A few days ago, I met a senior aide to the previous party leader Ed Miliband who talked for a while about how, for all the rhetoric deployed by the new team, little of substance had changed in policy. “Apart from this stuff about a worker fund,” he mused. “Now that is big.”
Big indeed. This isn’t just about giving employees more money; it’s handing them a stake and a voice in the enterprises on which they spend most of their waking hours.
And here is the full article.
Frances O’Grady, the TUC general secretary, told a fringe meeting at lunchtime that workers faced a “shock and awe” obliteration of their rights if a Tory Brexit succeeded. She cited holiday pay for part-time workers as an example of how the EU has helped British workers.
She also said the “humiliation” of workers in Britain had contributed to the leave vote. She said:
We didn’t do enough to acknowledge how much hurt there is in communities going way back, to the 1980s, people battered and bruised from the deindustrialisation of Thatcherism and people have never recovered.
It’s not about people being racist, or caring about our future, very often they felt they had no power … when [they see] their kids are going into zero hours with low pay.
And Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, told the meeting that Theresa May was “deaf” to a series of warnings that her Chequers proposal was fundamentally unacceptable. He said:
She must have been the only person last week who was surprised that the EU was not going to accept Chequers.
Labour's plans for bringing water industry into public ownership
And here is a summary from a Labour news release of its plans to bring the water industry into public ownership.
Labour will transfer ownership of the existing water and sewerage companies to new regional water authorities (RWAs). There will be a clear separation between the oversight and strategic governance – which will be the responsibility of the boards of the RWAs (made up from councillors, worker representatives and representatives of community, consumer and environmental interests) – and day-to-day operational management – which will be in the hands of professional management and the wider workforce.
RWA boards will have a statutory duty to disseminate information and hold monthly public meetings in different locations each month. Meetings will also be broadcast live on the internet, and all papers will be made public.
We are simultaneously launching a launching a wide-ranging consultation within the Labour Party, trade union membership, campaign groups and industry experts to help us design governance structures for public utilities that will maximise democratic participation and accountability. The final governance structures for the publicly owned water system are subject to the outcome of this consultation.
Existing shareholders will be compensated with bonds. The UK legal framework is clear that the level of compensation should be decided by Parliament. This was confirmed by the ECHR in relation to the nationalisation of Northern Rock.
The new public companies’ financial management will be modelled on TfL –they will continue to be almost completely self-financing from user charges and debt raised subject to an authorised limit based on recurring annual income and cash available to pay financing costs. In March 2017, TfL had ratings of AA from S&P, and Aa3 from Moodys – much higher than any of the private water companies, and close to the rating of the UK government itself.
All staff will transfer on a TUPE basis in the same roles, except for senior executives and directors, whose posts will be re-advertised on dramatically reduced salaries capped by our 20:1 pay ratio policy.
Labour has today released an eight-page briefing note (pdf) with more details of its plans to bring the water system into public ownership.
And it has also published a 14-page consultation paper on democratic public ownership.
Water bosses to be replaced by people on much lower salaries under Labour's public ownership plans
The Labour press release about John McDonnell’s plans to bring the water industry into public ownership says that senior executives could be sacked, and replaced by people on much lower salaries. It says:
All staff will transfer on a TUPE basis in the same roles, except for senior executives and directors, whose posts will be re-advertised on dramatically reduced salaries capped by our 20:1 pay ratio policy
This is from the Fair Tax Mark campaign.
Labour Party Shadow Chancellor @johnmcdonnellMP announces shareholder action campaign that will call on companies to sign-up to the #FairTaxMark Read our full response: https://t.co/MAAuS7jM9I. #Lab18 #SRI #CSR #TaxJustice pic.twitter.com/fmvudJ8zRt
— Fair Tax Mark (@FairTaxMark) September 24, 2018
CBI claims Labour policies could 'crack foundations of this country's prosperity'
The CBI doesn’t like McDonnell’s speech. This is from its director general Carolyn Fairbairn.
Labour must meet business halfway or they will crack the foundations of this country’s prosperity.
No-one in business would disagree with the fundamental aims of these policies – to engage and motivate employees, deliver for customers and share prosperity. And it is good to hear the shadow chancellor say he is proud of the millions of businesses who contribute to communities across the UK.
But with Labour’s current proposals, the fallout for the UK, its workers and customers would be a drop in living standards.
From renationalisation to dilution of shares, Labour seems determined to impose rules that display a wilful misunderstanding of business. Their policies would immediately reduce the value of shares owned by ordinary people by over 10% and hobble UK ambitions to compete on a global stage. That’s a double whammy for people’s pensions and savings.
At a time of great uncertainty, this is no way to build the foundations of competitiveness and productivity that will improve people’s lives.
Business shares many of Labour’s aspirations. From training budgets to pay transparency and employee share ownership, great strides are being made. Firms urge Labour to open their eyes and work with them to move forward, rather than blocking progress through blind ideology.
John McDonnell's speech - Snap verdict
John McDonnell’s speech - Snap verdict: The chancellor or shadow chancellor’s speech at party conference is normally the second most anticipated event of the week, and often it’s marked by sweeping claims and rhetorical overdrive. This felt very different, almost understated. Perhaps it was because McDonnell has a sore throat. But a much more likely explanation is that McDonnell felt no need for the usual verbal flim-flam, because there was enough substance in the speech to carry it through. There was an inherent seriousness that made it a success.
Labour’s case is that it can, and must, transform the way the economy works, and there was enough in this speech to suggest this is more than just an idle promise. The merits of the employee ownership plan may be debatable, but it is not unreasonable, it should benefit workers and the taxpayers and, in their rebuttal, the Conservatives were reduced to saying they were already “introducing measures to increase employee share ownership”. Labour’s plans for public ownership would change the structure of the economy significantly, and McDonnell was right to say Labour has the public on its side on this issue. His plan to shame companies into signing up to fair tax standards, while Labour is still in opposition, may have sounded symbolic. But there was also an implicit hint, I thought, that if firms did not comply, they might face compulsion - perhaps enforced by the new, re-programmed Treasury.
McDonnell did manage to sound positive about the contribution that business makes generally (not something Corbyn always manages) and he made a point of praising Gordon Brown, which is something that hasn’t happened much at Labour conferences since 2015. He did not say anything that added to what he said this morning about Brexit and a second referendum, although his line about Brexit being an anti-establishment vote (which is partly was) helps to explain why he is so unenthusiastic about reversing it.
This was not a speech that people will be quoting for years to come. But it is one that helps to explain why Labour’s economic policies are being taken seriously - as illustrated by a remarkable article that appeared in the Financial Times (paywall) at the end of last week. “In at least six policy areas, which Mr Corbyn and his shadow chancellor John McDonnell are treating as priorities, businesses and the government need to catch up,” it said. And it ended: “The Labour party has stepped into the vacuum left by the government and appears to be offering the radical change that people seek.” It was by Jim O’Neill, a former Treasury minister in David Cameron’s government and a former Goldman Sachs economist.
Updated
And here is McDonnell’s peroration.
The Tories’ austerity has been brutal. But what I have resented most is that they try to take away the dreams, the hope and optimism our people, especially our young people, that dream of building a better world.
But they fail to understand that we have an unwavering faith that together people can change the world. We will not settle for anything less.
Yesterday the press reported the Tories were drawing up secret plans for a quick general election. So the message from this conference is bring it on.
Whenever the general election comes, we are ready. Ready to campaign for victory, ready for Government, ready to build the future.
And you know, like Bill Shankly, we’ll be proud to call that future, socialism. Solidarity.
Bill Shankly featured in a video shown just before the speech.
And that’s it.
McDonnell says, the greater the mess, the more radical Labour will have to be.
Past shadow chancellors have come to conference with warnings about how bad the situation is to reduce people’s expectations of what can be achieved when we go into government. This shadow chancellor is different.
I want you to know that:
The greater the mess we inherit, the more radical we have to be; the greater the need for change, the greater the opportunity we have to create that change and we will.
McDonnell calls for an election.
I just say to the Tories, in the interests of our country get out of the way and let us get on with securing a way forward. A way forward that will protect our economy, our jobs and standards of living for our people. If they won’t do that then, you know my preference, let’s have a general election.
We are keeping all the options for democratic engagement on the table. But look, I feel so strongly that these Tories should face the people. Face the people for the way they have recklessly put our country’s future at risk over the last two years.
Going off script, McDonnell praises Gordon Brown. He says he was on a platform with Brown recently, and when McDonnell was introduced as shadow chancellor, Brown said McDonnell had always been shadow chancellor.
He goes on:
Gordon Brown recently expressed his concern at the current weaknesses in global relationships to deal with any future economic crises. With major nations on the brink of a trade war, and with climate change accelerating, we can’t risk the kind of international breakdown that led to the Great Depression. Just as at the Bretton Woods conference in 1944, there is an urgent need to work out if the current international system can cope with these threats.
Over the past few decades that system has concentrated power in the hands of an international financial elite. Individuals, communities, and even nation states have been made increasingly powerless. It isn’t working for the Western world, where stagnant wages have helped feed the rise of the racist right. And it isn’t working for the developing world, whose wealth is plundered by multinational corporations or stashed in Western banks.
We will be convening in the spring an international social forum to bring together leading economists, politicians and civil society representatives, launching a dialogue on the common risks we face and the actions we need to take.
I am pleased to announce that Nobel Prize winning economist, Joseph Stiglitz, has agreed to lead this discussion for us.
McDonnell says he will get firms to sign up to fair tax standards
McDonnell praises some companies - but not all.
We need to exert some people power over our tax system. There are millions of businesses out there which deserve our respect and we will always support them. They are responsible, ethical entrepreneurs, who pay their taxes and support our community. They should know that we are proud of them.
But there is a minority that don’t live up to those standards. They avoid paying their taxes on an industrial scale. They are denying our hospitals, our schools and carers the resources they need.
And he says he will ask firms to sign up to fair tax standards.
The Tories record on tackling tax avoidance and money laundering has been a disgrace. We can’t trust the Tories on this but we shouldn’t just wait until we get into government. We should act now.
One way is to mobilise shareholder power to demand companies uphold basic tax justice standards. Numerous institutions from churches to trade unions and pension funds have large scale shareholdings in many of the companies that avoid taxes.
So today, I’m announcing my intention to bring together these organisations to launch a shareholder campaign. We’ll be demanding companies sign up to the Fair Tax Mark standards, demonstrating transparently that they pay their fair share of taxes.
McDonnell says he would 'reprogram the Treasury'
McDonnell says Labour would reform the Treasury.
For too long that establishment has used the Treasury as a barrier against putting power back into the hands of the people. So we will reprogram the Treasury, rewriting its rule books on how it makes decisions about what, when, and where to invest.
We will end the Treasury bias against investing the regions and nations. And we’ll make sure it assesses spending decisions against the need to tackle climate change, protect our environment, drive up productivity and meet the investment challenges of the 4th industrial revolution.
McDonnell says he will set up public ownership unit in Treasury
McDonnell says he will set up a public ownership unit in the Treasury.
People have had enough of being ripped off by privatisation. That’s why we’ve said no more PFIs and we’ll bring the PFIs back in house. To our public ownership programme through we will set up a ‘Public and Community Ownership Unit’ in the Treasury. It will bring in the external expertise we will need.
Let me make it absolutely clear that the full weight of the Treasury will be used to take on any vested interests that try to thwart the will of the people. Some said our manifesto was a fantasy or a wish list, attractive but ultimately not deliverable. I’m telling you today that we are planned, ready and prepared.
More on the plans for water nationalisation.
There will be an unprecedented openness and transparency in how the industry will be managed. We are ending the profiteering in dividends, vast executive salaries and excessive interest payments.
Surpluses will be reinvested in water infrastructure and staff, or used to reduce bills. Real investment will allow the highest environmental standards.
McDonnell announces consultation on democracy in public services
McDonnell restates Labour’s commitment to public ownership.
We are extending economic democracy even further by bringing water, energy, Royal Mail and rail into public ownership. Some press said the voters would be horrified. They couldn’t have been more wrong.
Public ownership has proved its popularity in opinion poll after opinion poll. It’s not surprising, look at the scandal of the privatisation of water. Water bills have risen 40% in real terms since privatisation. £18 billion has been paid out in dividends. Water companies receive more in tax credits than they pay in tax. Each day enough water to meet the needs of 20 million people is lost due to leakages. With figures like that, we can’t afford not to take them back.
But be clear, nationalisation will not be a return to the past. We don’t want to take power away from faceless directors to a Whitehall office, to swap one remote manager for another.
Today, Rebecca Long Bailey and I are launching a large scale consultation on democracy in our public services. We are also setting out our plans for a new publicly-owned water system that puts this essential service back in the hands of local councils, workers and customers.
Updated
McDonnell restates the commitment to give a third of seats on company boards to workers.
And he turns to today share ownership plan.
Power also comes from ownership. We believe that workers, who create the wealth of a company, should share in its ownership and, yes, in the returns that it makes.
Employee ownership increases a company’s productivity and encourages long term decision making. Let me thank the Co-op Party for its work on this and Gareth Thomas MP in particular for his ideas.
We will legislate for large companies to transfer shares into an “Inclusive Ownership Fund.” The shares will be held and managed collectively by the workers. The shareholding will give workers the same rights as other shareholders to have a say over the direction of their company. And dividend payments will be made directly to the workers from the fund. Payments could be up to £500 a year. That’s 11 million workers each with a greater say, and a greater stake, in the rewards of their labour.
But we all know it’s not just the employees of a company that create the profits it generates. It’s the collective investment in infrastructure, education and research and development that we as a society make that enables entrepreneurs to build and grow their businesses.
So we believe it’s right that society shares in the benefits that investment produces. That’s why a proportion of revenues generated by the ‘inclusive ownership funds’ will be transferred back to our public services as a social dividend. Over time, this will mobilise billions that could be spent supporting our public services and social security system.
McDonnell praises the recent IPPR report on a new economy.
Archbishop Welby took some stick in the media and from some in the establishment for his support for the report. He wasn’t engaging in party politics. He was simply speaking the truth as a moral leader in our society. Just a few words of advice though Archbishop, when they get round to calling you a Marxist, I’ll give you some tips on how to handle it.
McDonnell explains how Labour would extend workers’ rights.
We will redress the balance of power at work. We will be proud to fulfil John Smith’s, our late leader’s promise, that workers will have trade union rights from day one whether in full time, part time or temporary work.
We’ll ban zero hours contracts. We will lift people out of poverty by setting a real living wage of £10 an hour. Wages will be determined by sectoral collective bargaining. And yes we will tackle the continuing scandal of the gender pay gap.
McDonnell says democracy is at the heart of socialism.
Democracy is at the heart of our socialism – and extending it should always be our goal. Our predecessors fought for democracy in Parliament, against the divine right of kings and the aristocracy. They fought for working people to get the franchise.
Our sisters fought for women’s suffrage in the teeth of ferocious opposition and our movement fought for workers to have a voice at work. The trade unions founded this party to take that democratic vision even further. So in 2018 I tell you that at the heart of our programme is the greatest extension of economic democratic rights that this country has ever seen.
McDonnell turns to another anniversary.
You know, there’s another anniversary this year. One hundred years ago in 1918 the Labour party adopted clause four as part of our party’s constitution. Let me remind you what it said: “to secure for the workers, by hand or by brain, the full fruits of their industry.”
I say the clause 4 principles are as relevant today as they were back then. Fair, democratic, collective solutions to the challenges of the modern economy.
McDonnell says Brexit was 'an anti-establishment vote'
McDonnell says the crash led to eight years of austerity and financial failure.
In the 6th richest country in the world it cannot be right that 5000 of our fellow citizens are sleeping on our streets and that 4 million of our children are living in poverty, two thirds of them in households where someone is in work.
That tells you that wages are so low, still below 2010 levels. They are not sufficient to provide a decent life for many of our people. The Tories have created an age of insecurity where people have little if any power or control over their lives. It’s no wonder so many people voted for Brexit. They voted for any form of change. It was an anti-establishment vote.
McDonnell says financial crash caused by financial elite having too much power
McDonnell turns to the financial crash.
This month is the 10th anniversary of the financial crash. J.K.Galbraith in his book on the 1929 crash said sure you can try to create institutions to avoid crashes in the future but the best protection is memory. So it’s worth remembering. The causes of the crash were:
Yes, greed; yes, the deregulation that turned the City into a multibillion pound casino, but more importantly it was caused by the power of a small, financial elite who exercised too much power over our political system.
McDonnell says he has a sore throat. He may have a Theresa May moment, he jokes.
John McDonnell's speech
John McDonnell is speaking now.
He says he wants to start saying something personal.
People in the media have attacked his friend, Jeremy Corbyn.
He says he wants to say how proud he is of the dignity with which Corbyn has withstood that vilification.
Labour would spend £20m expanding renters
John Healey, the shadow housing secretary, told the Labour conference earlier that the party would give power would be handed to renters with a £20m expansion of renters’ unions. In his speech he said:
In year one, we will legislate for new renters’ rights to control costs, improve conditions and increase security.
But we know that our rights are worthless when we can’t enforce them, in the workplace or in the housing market.
So I can announce today, the next Labour government will back new unions for renters, and fund them in every part of the country - so renters who feel helpless in the face of this housing crisis can organise and defend their rights.
Boris Johnson and other Tory Brexiteers have been ridiculed over their expertise by a union boss who suggested poultry giant Bernard Matthews and nannies know more. As the Press Association reports, Unite assistant general secretary Tony Burke sounded warnings over the dangers posed by a no deal Brexit to the car industry at the Labour Party conference. He criticised Conservative MP Sir Bernard Jenkin for claiming Jaguar Land Rover was “making it up” by warning a hard Brexit would wipe out its profits and cost tens of thousands of jobs. Burke went on:
Tell that to 1,000 lorry drivers who bring components to and from the UK and the EU each day. Tell that to 10,000 track workers in Jaguar Land Rover working in production and design that the crisis is being made up. And tell that to thousands of workers in the supply chain, including our steel workers, who rely on these contracts.
What on earth does Bernard Jenkin know about building cars? Bernard Matthews probably knew more.
Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Davis, Boris Johnson - their experience of manufacturing probably only extends to watching the nanny assemble an Ikea flat pack.
Here is an internal People Vote briefing arguing that what John McDonnell is saying about Labour not offering people an in/out second referendum (see 9.12am) should not be the end of the matter.
Last night, lines in the composite motion saying a People’s Vote would only be about “the terms of Brexit” were taken out by delegates for a good reason – they want to give the public the chance to keep the deal we’ve got with the EU rather than choose between two bad ways of departing
What John McDonnell said this morning was significant in two ways. First, he accepted that if Labour can’t get a general election, the party will support a People’s Vote. Second, he is still claiming it should be about how we leave the EU.
John McDonnell is right on the first point but wrong on the second. There are no other realistic options to resolve the mess of Brexit other than a people’s vote – and Labour knows Conservative MPs won’t vote to bring the government down. But the cold, hard fact this morning is that the motion agreed last night would allow staying in the EU to be on the ballot paper. Anything else is just spin.
Our polls show that 90 per cent of Labour members – and three-quarters of Labour voters – would vote to stay in the EU if given the chance.
This week, the Labour leadership has shown it is beginning to listen to Labour voters and Labour members. They should continue to do so on this, the most crucial issue for jobs, public services and young people’s futures.
Full text of the Labour composite on Brexit
Here is the full text of the composite motion on Brexit agreed last night. It will be debated tomorrow. It is the text that was available last night, although not officially published by the party. I have taken out just three words, which seemed to be there as a result of a drafting mistake.
I’ve hightlighted the key paragraph in bold.
Conference welcomes Jeremy Corbyn’s determined efforts to old the Tories to account for their disastrous negotiations. Conference accepts that the public vote to leave the EU, but when people voted to ‘take back control’ they were not voting for fewer rights, economic chaos or to risk jobs. Conference notes the warning made by Jaguar Land Rover on 11.9.18, that without the right deal in place, tens of thousands of jobs there would be put at risk.
Conference notes that workers in industries across the economy in ports, food, pharmaceuticals, manufacturing, energy, chemicals, in our public services and beyond are worried about the impact of a hard Brexit on livelihoods and communities.
Conference believes we need a relationship with the EU that guarantees full participation in the single market. The Brexit deal being pursued by Theresa May is a threat to jobs, freedom of movement, peace in Northern Ireland and the NHS. Tory Brexit means a future of dodgy trade deals and American-style deregulation, undermining our rights, freedoms and prosperity. This binds the hands of future Labour governments, making it much harder for us to deliver on our promises. Conference notes Labour has set six robust tests for the final Brexit deal. Conference believes Labour MP’s must vote against any Tory deal failing to meet these tests in full.
Conference also believes a no deal Brexit should be rejected as a viable option and calls upon Labour MP’s to vigorously oppose any attempt by this government to deliver a no deal outcome. Conference note that when trade unions have a mandate to negotiate a deal for their members, the final deal is accepted or rejected by the membership. Conference does not believe that such important negotiations should be left to government ministers who are more concerned with self-preservation and ideology than household bills and wages.
Stagnant wages, crumbling services and the housing crisis are being exacerbated by the government and employers making the rich richer at working people’s expense, and not immigration. Conference declares solidarity and common cause with all progressive and socialist forces confronting the rising tide of neo-fascism, xenophobia, nationalism and right-wing populism in Europe. Conference resolves to reaffirm the Labour party’s commitment to the Good Friday agreement of 1998 including no hard border in Ireland.
Conference believes that there is no satisfactory technological solution that is compliant with the Good Friday agreement and resolves to oppose any Brexit deal that would see the restoration of a border on the island of Ireland in any form for goods, services or people ...
Should parliament vote down a Tory Brexit deal or the talks end in no-deal, Conference believes this would constitute a loss of confidence in the government. In these circumstances, the best outcome for the country is an immediate general election that can sweep the Tories from power.
If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. If the government is confident in negotiating a deal that working people, our economy and communities will benefit from they should not be afraid to put that deal to the public.
This should be the first step in a Europe-wide struggle for levelling up of living standards, rights and services and democratisation of European Institutions. Labour will form a radical government; taxing the rich to fund better public services, expanding common ownership, abolishing, anti-union laws and engaging in massive public investment.
Proposer – GMB
Seconder – Exeter CLP
Umunna says he won't be bullied by McCluskey
The Labour MP Chuka Umunna has responded to what Unite’s Len McCluskey said about him from the conference platform this morning. (See 11.13am.)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I stand by what I've said on bullying and racism in the Labour Party and won't be bullied into silence by anyone,not least because my family have experienced racism too. Its non negotiable.If Len McCluskey doesn't like that, tough #Lab18
— Chuka Umunna (@ChukaUmunna) September 24, 2018
Actually, on this occasion McCluskey criticised Umunna directly for supposedly planning a new party (Umunna denies that), not for what Umunna said about thinking that Labour is now an institutionally racist party (although doubtless McCluskey does not agree with that either).
Momentum says Labour's new leadership rules are 'deeply disappointing'
Momentum, the organisation for Corbyn-supporting activists which is increasingly influential within the party, has put out a statement about the party rules changes that have been passed by conference. (See 10.10am.) A spokesperson said the changes to leadership election rules are “deeply disappointing”. The spokesperson said:
While the Democracy Review has passed it is only a meagre set of reforms, falling well short of what the members want with many key proposals being watered down or blocked.
However, it could have been much worse. The incredible grassroots campaign over the last two weeks in which Momentum petitions gathered more than 50,000 signatures and thousands of Labour members lobbied their NEC representatives delivered a crucial reform of parliamentary selections and averted catastrophe over the leadership threshold.
Although it stops short of open selections, the changes to how parliamentary candidates are selected will give members far more say in who represents them and help open the door to a new generation of MPs. And while the change in the leadership rules is deeply disappointing, it is not the dramatic increase to the leadership threshold proposed earlier in the week which would have stopped a socialist candidate getting on the ballot in a future leadership contest.
Jeremy Corbyn promised a radical expansion of democracy in the economy and wider society and this logic must extend to the Labour party too. If we can’t make democracy work in Labour, we can’t make it work in the rest of society.
The Democracy Review is only the beginning, and Momentum will continue to campaign for open selections and for a more member-led, democratic party.
Michael Chessum from Another Europe is Possible, one of the grassroots organisers who co-ordinated the push for a Brexit vote at conference, said this morning that it was “preposterous” that a future referendum would not include an option to remain. (See 9.12am.) He said:
The Brexit motion set to be debated by conference, which is backed and negotiated by the leadership, clearly keeps remain on the table. That was a key element of what was agreed in negotiating the motion.
This idea that any future referendum would not include a remain option is preposterous - if we’re committing to a public vote, it would be an insult to the public not to trust them with all options.
All options are on the table and that includes staying in that EU.
The People’s Vote campaign, which is leading the fight for an in/out referendum on the final deal, is also arguing this morning that the composite motion agreed last night clearly keeps the option of an in/out referendum on the table. It is trying to downplay the significance of what John McDonnell said on this on the Today programme. (See 9.12am.) A People’s Vote source said that, although McDonnell was “trying to spin” the line that a referendum would not have remaining in the EU as an option, the composite does not say that, and an attempt to draft the composite in these terms was “pushed back”. (It was; see 9.12am.) The source also said that what was significant was that McDonnell said clearly this morning that, if there was no general election, Labour would definitely demand a people’s vote. (See 8.24am.)
(The weakness with this argument is that, if you are looking for a guide as to what Labour actually will do, McDonnell’s words are probably a much better guide than the small print of a composite motion.)
McCluskey denounces Daily Mail and Sun as 'racist'
Len McCluskey, the Unite general secretary, has just delivered a typically combative speech to the Labour conference. Two lines stuck out.
- McCluskey denounced the Daily Mail and the Sun as “racist”, claiming that their attacks on Jeremy Corbyn were unjustified. In a reference to the controversy this summer about Corbyn’s stance on antisemitsm, he said:
Anyone has a right to disagree and a right to criticise.
We are a democratic party.
But I am talking about some MPs turning into an echo chamber for whatever line of attack the Tories and the press are deploying against us.
Yes. Anyone with a point of view should be heard.
But anyone screaming ‘you are a racist’ at Jeremy Corbyn has lost every sense of moral proportion, every shred of decency.
Nor do we need any lessons on racism from the professional, fully paid-up racists of the Daily Mail and the Sun.
Not one of them has done a fraction as much for community relations in this country as Jeremy Corbyn.
Our party is the party of unity, equality and justice. It’s the Tories who stoke fear and hatred.
So we should not let the attacks put us on the back foot for a minute. It’s time we all – each and every one of us – spoke up for our leader.
The most decent and principled man in politics today.
- He accused the Labour MP Chuka Umunna of plotting against the leader and criticised anyone contemplating a breakaway from Labour. Umunna has strongly denied that his work with the People’s Vote campaign is paving the way for the launch of a new party. But McCluskey implied he did not find this convincing. He told delegates:
And let me advise anyone who may be listening to siren voices urging some sort of breakaway.
If the centre ground is fighting for a better deal for working people and protecting our communities, look no further.
It’s right here in the Labour party.
So Chuka, drop the country club plotting. Listen to working people the length and breadth of the country. Get behind the party that made you.
And join the rest of this movement in fighting to get rid of this rotten government.
Any decision by Corbyn to deploy nuclear weapons would be based on advice from cabinet, MPs and community, says McDonnell
And here are two other non-Brexit lines from the John McDonnell morning interviews.
- McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, rejected CBI claims that his plans to give workers a 10% shareholding in UK companies would lead to less investment. (See 8.07am.) He told BBC Breakfast:
If you look at other economies, like Germany, where there’s been much more worker involvement, it’s been the reverse. You get more investment, you get longer-term decision-making and you have a growing economy. This is nothing unusual. It happens in other countries and it has proved to be successful.
- McDonnell said that any decision by a Labour prime minister to deploy nuclear weapons would be taken following consultation with the cabinet, parliament and the “wider community”. Jeremy Corbyn and McDonnell are personally opposed to nuclear weapons, but official Labour policy supports the nuclear deterrent. In an interview on ITV’s Good Morning Britain, Piers Morgan challenged McDonnell over how that could work. McDonnell said:
I’ll tell you a straight answer, it’s Labour party policy, isn’t it, that was in the last manifesto, that we maintain the nuclear deterrent. Full stop.
It will be a decision of the government in the future, when a Labour government comes to power, about how and if that was ever used.
I have expressed my own personal view and, I repeat, I lost that debate, so democracy prevails and that would be the policy of the government itself.
McDonnell said that there would be talks at all levels of government on the use of nuclear weapons and that the prime minister would take a decision “on the basis of the discussions that take place within cabinet”. He went on:
The prime minister, Jeremy Corbyn when he is in government, will obviously take the decision on the basis of the advice he is given by the cabinet, the discussions that have taken place in parliament and the country overall.
And weighing all those matters up he will then come to that decision.
McDonnell also said discussions would take place “within parliament and the wider community itself”. Asked what would happen if the anti-nuclear Corbyn was given firm advice to deploy the weapons, McDonnell said:
There would be a government decision the prime minister would abide by. The decision would be one in the best interests of our country.
There was a glitch in the post at 9.12am, and I reposted a quote instead of giving John McDonnell’s second reply. That is now fixed. Sorry.
Holding another in/out Brexit referendum could revive Ukip, says McDonnell
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, was not just on Today this morning. He gave a series of media interviews.
Here are two other Brexit-related lines that he came out with.
- McDonnell said holding another in/out Brexit referendum could revive Ukip. He told BBC Radio 5 Live:
We argued for remain in the past but we lost that vote so we have to respect that. All the polling that we have seen is that the country is still pretty split down the middle.
My big worry is that if we go for a referendum which is seen as just a simple re-run we could divide the country again, we could get almost the same result or if it’s slightly different that people demand another referendum ...
My main fear is what happened last time after the referendum which opened up all sorts of xenophobic feelings and a rise of the right. I don’t want to revive Ukip in any way or even the far-right.
- He said he thought Labour could negotiate a better Brexit deal than the government. He told Sky News that if Labour came to power after a general election within the next few months, it would reopen Brexit talks. He said:
We think we can negotiate a deal. As soon as we change government, the whole atmosphere would change. I think our European partners are up for a deal ...
You negotiate on the basis of mutual respect and mutual interest. You don’t bang the table and threaten to walk away, and certainly you don’t do what this government has done, which is to put up proposals which nobody could accept.
They can’t even get a deal through their own party, let alone through Parliament, so we are saying to them ‘Just move over and let us get on with it as quickly as possible’.
Conference approves party rule changes, but with significant opposition to 2 key plans
In Liverpool the conference has opened. And the results of the eight card votes on democracy review rules changes that were held yesterday have been announced.
All eight rule changes were passed.
Six of them were approved with 90% or more of the votes in favour.
But there was significant opposition to two of the proposals, that were both opposed by about 35% of conference. And these were the two changes that attracted most attention: a new system saying leadership candidates have to be nominated not just by MPs, but by unions and constituency Labour parties too; and a system to make it easier for activists to challenge sitting MPs.
My colleague Jessica Elgot explains the changes in detail here.
Turning away from Labour for a moment, the Daily Telegraph is splashing on a story (paywall) saying a majority of the cabinet now favour a Canada-style trade deal with the EU after Brexit.
TELEGRAPH main story #tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/rCHrTHbd9n
— Helen Miller (@MsHelicat) September 23, 2018
On the Today programme this morning Carolyn Fairbairn, the CBI director general, said that thousands of jobs would be lost from a Canada-style Brexit. She said:
A Canada free-style deal is not the answer for our country.
It would introduce friction at borders, it would not solve the Irish border, it would damage the supply chains on which thousands and thousands of jobs depend. It’s a seductive idea but it is not the answer for Britain ...
It would be the first free trade deal in history that actually increased barriers to trade and did not reduce them.
This is from David Clark, a special adviser to Robin Cook when Cook was foreign secretary.
The message for Remainers coming from Liverpool today is the Labour is completely untrustworthy. It will take their votes and use them to ram Brexit through. https://t.co/cmUpuP72ji
— David Clark (@David_K_Clark) September 24, 2018
Staying in EU would not be an option if Labour were to hold second Brexit referendum, McDonnell says
Last night, at the marathon compositing meeting where delegates met to hammer out the terms of the motion on Brexit and a second referendum to be debated tomorrow, there was a moment when it looked as though those demanding a “people’s vote” had lost. As the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg reported, the text was going to talk about a vote “on the terms of Brexit” - ie on deal or no deal, not leave or remain.
Labour motion text as of 2300 - 'if we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote on the terms of Brexit'
— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) September 23, 2018
The “People’s Vote” supporters in the room mounted a fightback, and by the time the final text was agreed, “on the terms of Brexit” was out - implying that the option of Labour backing another in/out referendum was still in play.
white smoke! - motion will be 'if we cannot get a General Election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote' - NB 'on terms of Brexit' has gone so could be in/out vote, not just on deal
— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) September 23, 2018
But this morning John McDonnell effectively killed off the option again. He was not quite as blunt as Len McCluskey, the Unite general secretary, who said clearly yesterday he was opposed to a remain/leave referendum. At least twice McDonnell said it would be for parliament to decide. But that is a particularly weaselly form of words that McDonnell has deployed in the past when faced with difficult questions (eg, how much compensation will be paid when privatised companies are renationalised?); the government gets to decide what gets put to a vote in the Commons unless McDonnell is promising MPs a free vote on these issues (which he isn’t.)
Nick Robinson asked McDonnell four times whether people would have the option of choosing to stay in the EU in any referendum offered by Labour. In his first response McDonnell said:
My view at the moment is that parliament will decide what will be on that ballot paper. We will be arguing that it should be a vote on the deal itself. And then enable us to go back and do the negotiations.
Then, when Robinson pushed for a clearer answer, McDonnell said:
The issue now, if we are going to respect the last referendum, it will be about the deal, it will be a negotiation on the deal. That’s why I would rather have a general election. Because we can have that, we can then not just discuss the deal, we can also debate the team that will negotiate it.
Robinson put it to him that he was saying remain/leave would not be an option. McDonnell did not challenge this, saying:
We’re respecting the referendum. We want a general election. If we can’t get that, we will have a people’s vote. The people’s vote will be on the deal itself, and whether we can negotiate a better deal.
When Robinson tried one final time to clarify what McDonnell was saying, McDonnell reverted to the “Parliament will determine the nature of the question” formula.
- McDonnell rejects calls for people to have the option of voting remain in any second Brexit referendum staged by Labour.
UPDATE: The original post repeated McDonnell’s first quote instead of reporting what McDonnell said in his second reply. That was just an editing mistake. I’ve now posted the proper second quote. Sorry.
Updated
Q: Why did a Labour MP (Luciana Berger) need police protection here yesterday?
McDonnell says, in the light of the murder of Jo Cox, the party wants to make sure all people are safe.
McDonnell ends by repeating his belief that the next Labour leader will be a woman.
And that’s it.
Q: Labour has agreed a motion on Brexit. Is it fair to say you have decided not to decide?
McDonnell says Robinson is being cynical. He wants a general election, he says. He says he respects the result of the referendum. If they cannot get a general election, “we will go for a people’s vote”.
Robinson says that goes further than what Labour has said before. He is not saying they will go for a people’s vote, not that they might.
McDonnell rows back a bit. He says Labour might go for a people’s vote.
Q: Would you give people the option of staying in the EU?
McDonnell says it would be a vote on the deal. They have to respect the result of the referendum.
Q: So staying in would not be an option?
McDonnell says the first step is to get a new government.
Q: So you are not promising the people the option of staying in.
McDonnell says parliament would decide the question.
- McDonnell suggests staying in the EU would not be an option in any second referendum staged by Labour.
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Q: When Jeremy Corbyn was last on the programme, he proposed a cap on wages. How is that going?
McDonnell says Corbyn was talking about pay ratios. The party is still looking at that.
He says there should be a public debate about this.
People know we need a more equal society, he says.
McDonnell says we should be proud of most businesses. But some are using tax avoidance. Those are the ones we should tackle.
Q: Some of the money would go to government. So this is another tax rise for business, isn’t it?
McDonnell says it is a social dividend.
Q: How much will it raise?
McDonnell says it could be £2bn initially, after the first five years.
Q: But if you look at the big FTSE companies, revenue could be £45bn.
McDonnell says it depends on the growth of the economy. Workers will benefit from this, he says. He says all the evidence suggests that, when workers have a stake in a company, productivity is higher.
Q: You did not consult the CBI.
McDonnell says the consultation starts after the speech. He will meet the CBI later.
John McDonnell's Today interview
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, is being interviewed on Today by Nick Robinson.
Q: Are you promising what Margaret Thatcher promised - a share-owning democracy?
McDonnell says the argument moved from ownership to stakeholding. Remember Will Hutton’s book. He says Labour would introduce shareholding. But not individual shareholding. Shares for workers would go into a collective pot. He says, because the state creates the conditions that help firms prosper, some money should go to the state too.
He says Thatcher advocated shareholding. But shareholding has gone done, from about 40% of the population to about 13%.
Q: The CBI says this will lead to less investment.
McDonnell says look at a country like Germany; they have four or five times as much share ownership.
Q: But that is not compulsory.
McDonnell says he is proposing a better way of sharing ownership. He says the recent IPPR report proposed this. This is just a “tiny step” forward. It should have been done 20 years ago.
CBI claims investment would 'flee' UK under Labour plan to make firms give shares to workers
After a meeting lasting more than five hours, late last night Labour finally agreed the wording of the composite motion on Brexit and a second referendum that will be debated tomorrow. Our story about it is here. There are other important Brexit developments coming today, with Tory Brexiters launching an alternative plan in London, the cabinet meeting, and the government publishing its latest set of no deal Brexit planning papers.
And in Liverpool this morning John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, delivers his keynote speech just before lunch. He is announcing plans to force big firms to give shares to their employees. Labour would pass a law requiring private sector companies with 250 or more employees to transfer at least 1% of their ownership into an inclusive ownership fund (IOF) each year, up to a maximum of 10%. Smaller companies would be able to set up an IOF on a voluntary basis. Here is our overnight story with the full details.
The CBI, which represents big business, has denounced the plans. These are from its director general, Carolyn Fairbairn.
Rising wages are what everyone wants to see. But Labour is wrong to assert that workers will be helped by these proposals in their current form. Their diktat on employee share ownership will only encourage investors to pack their bags and will harm those who can least afford it.
— Carolyn Fairbairn (@cbicarolyn) September 23, 2018
Business has been resilient in the face of uncertainty, but Labour’s anti-business positioning is starting to bite. It’s time for pro-enterprise collaboration, not public proposals that set alarm bells ringing in boardrooms at home and across the world.
— Carolyn Fairbairn (@cbicarolyn) September 23, 2018
If Labour is really to find solutions that improve lives, they must sit down with firms and understand what will drive productivity and investment. The answer lies in the partnerships, innovation, infrastructure and skills that drive growth. It does not lie in dogma.
— Carolyn Fairbairn (@cbicarolyn) September 23, 2018
And this morning Fairbairn told the Today programme that Labour’s plans would hit share prices and cause investment to “flee” the country. She said:
Take steps like this and we will set the clock back, investment will flee our country and, whatever Labour say about this, the outcome will be one that reduces pay in people’s pockets.
McDonnell will be interviewed on the Today programme at 8.10am
Here is the agenda for the day.
9.30am: The conference opens for the day. Results of yesterday’s card votes on the democracy review rule changes should be announced.
9.55am: Carwyn Jones, the outgoing Welsh first minister, speaks.
10.10am: John Healey, the shadow housing secretary, opens a debate on private investment and ownership.
12.15pm: John McDonnell delivers his speech.
2.15pm: Richard Leonard, the Scottish Labour leader, speaks.
2.35pm: Margaret Greenwood, the shadow work and pensions secretary, opens a debate on social security.
This morning I will focus on Labour. But this afternoon, when the government’s no deal Brexit planning papers are released, I may switch to Brexit.
If you want to follow me or contact me on Twitter, I’m on@AndrewSparrow.
I try to monitor the comments BTL but normally I find it impossible to read them all. If you have a direct question, do include “Andrew” in it somewhere and I’m more likely to find it. I do try to answer direct questions, although sometimes I miss them or don’t have time.
If you want to attract my attention quickly, it is probably better to use Twitter.
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